I am still traveling and have very little time to write but I’m getting really sort of annoyed and troubled by some of the blog posts I’m reading regarding Blogher’s cliques, celebrities and queers.
DnW – people are celebrities because we love them, we read them and we are thrilled to meet them in person. What is wrong with that? Why would you want to see it diminished and just how would you suggest we go about this? Would you prefer it if those women who write wonderful blogs, wrote less well and acquired less success and fame? I don’t get your point. In fact worse than that, I’m really upset by it.
The women who were flocked by their fans and their friends deserve the attention. They work hard at what they do. They write well. They tell stories that we love reading. They are women worth meeting and worth flocking to. Haven’t you ever wanted to meet someone you respected and admired for their work? Haven’t you ever squealed with delight when you were able to meet someone like that? Or have you never felt an attachment of that nature so you simply can’t understand it and so must try and convince others that their feelings are somehow wrong or even harmful?
SourDuck (who I was thrilled to meet in person, by the way – straight white woman that she is) – ahhh so many things to say but really really no time to say them. I’ll start with this – those dykes you met who were troubled that they didn’t meet any other dykes, did they attempt to start a Birds of a Feather group for queers? Did they not realize the initial BOF groups were started based on the surveys filled out by Bloghers and there simply weren’t enough people who said they wanted a BOF for gays? That didn’t mean they couldn’t start their own, I most certainly started my own group, as did many other women. Oh wait, since I’m a lesbian I should have felt some responsibility to create a group for those poor queer folks, right? My bad. Next time I’ll be happy to pigeonhole myself into that group, just to make sure these women don’t feel like they’re being ignored. Since obviously, I should only be interested in talking about gender or orientation issues. I always forget that, someday someone is going to take my gay membership card away.
Did those dykes not go to the Identity panel where a woman stood up and said am I the only lesbian here and a room full of hands went up? And did those dykes realize that the identity blogging issues being addressed by the women of color, multi-racial families were very similar to those of queer women? If you attended the Outreach panel then you know that I did mention my orientation. I’m pretty sure, (though I wasn’t able to attend), that the sex panel would have been more than happy to hear from the dykes in the room. The naked blogging panel, also a good place to present naked blogging of orientation issues. There were plenty of opportunities for lesbians to make their issues and their feelings and their personalities known – if they didn’t do that, then why is that "Blogher’s" fault? The opportunities were there.
I met several lesbians, completely by accident, simply by talking to women sitting around me. I certainly never felt unincluded or unwanted or unaccepted and I didn’t feel I got less out of the conference simply because all of the dykes weren’t plopped in a circle, holding hands and chanting gay pride chants while the rest of the Bloghers looked on and cheered.
Sour Duck says that she knows of at least four lesbians and bloghers who have made a large contribution to Blogher… and we’re all suppose to feel like we "didn’t count" … don’t count me as one of the four who felt this way, because I felt like I counted as a woman, as a human being, as a blogger, a blogher, a panelist and a PERSON and I felt respected for who I am, completely, by every single person I spoke to. The very fact that you’re suggesting I should feel "like I don’t count" or shouldn’t have felt like I fit in is insulting to me. I fit in, very well, thank you. I was respected and appreciated.
The swag is swag, Blogher got sponsors and that’s the swag we received. The majority of Bloghers in attendance are appear to be straight, they were white, and many did appear to be mommies. So freaking what.
If you don’t like the baby bib, toss the freaking thing to a mommy who will like it or donate it to a shelter. Sour Duck complains that TWO out of the huge number of gifts were targeted to reproduction and heterosexual sexualities (FYI if you’re a dyke and you’re playing with sex toys and non-monogamous, that condom could actually come in handy.) – TWO out of dozen upon dozen of items, (actually there was also a PBS wipe off calendar, Sour Duck overlooked so 3 and then pasties, obviously a queer woman would never want pasties, someone ought to tell that to my partner.) What would gay friendly swag have looked like and who would have been the sponsor who provided such a thing? Dental dams along with the condoms, would that have made you happy?
Should Blogher completely ignore the parents in the group because we wouldn’t want to offend the childfree or the lesbians or those unable to conceive or adopt? Swag isn’t a political statement or a social statement. Some dykes and some feminists and some women want to make it such, but don’t count me with you. There are bigger issues than what came in the swag bag. The attitudes of some women attendees and non-attendees trouble me a lot more than the swag.
Dykes – get off your high horses and quit looking for insult where there is none and stop whining about your mistreatment and start appreciating ALL women, because if you had given the straight white mommies half a chance, you’d have learned a little more about the life you’re living in – and I’d be a lot less annoyed by my sister lesbians than I am right now. And any straight girls offended or offended FOR the lesbians – please. I don’t need anyone offended for me. I don’t need anyone making sweeping statements for me. I don’t need anyone telling me I should feel like I don’t count.
updated at 1:45 ET
Technorati Tags: blogher, bloghercon, blogher06, lesbians, celebrity, alist
Not knowing who DnW is (I’ll wait for you to linkify the refference) I’ll say nothing on that part of your post. For your response to Sour Duck’s post – amen! I’ve left a comment on her post – if for any reason it doesn’t pass moderation, I’ll post it on my blog. And the points I made (did people *ask* for a relevant BoF? Did they *propose* a relevant Room Of Your Own session? Did I feel unwanted, unloved or irrelevant at BlogHer 05) match the spirit of your reply.
Well put.
I’m not sure where you picked up anything offensive from what I wrote.
I’d like to see the culture of celebrity diminished because it creates an atmosphere of exclusivity (by definition). Nowhere in my post was I critical of those who were looked upon as celebrities; in fact, I clearly stated that I read several of them because I liked the way they write.
The point of my post wasn’t to be critical of those who have the name recognition and technorati ratings. I simply posed a series of questions about whether fostering that culture is a good thing or not, particularly in a group setting. Your answer is that it is. Fair enough, but don’t assume that I’m some bitter person trying to tear down people. Walls, yes. People, no.
What was offensive was what you reiterated here: “I’d like to see the culture of celebrity diminished because it creates an atmosphere of exclusivity (by definition).”
I believe these women earned their celebrity and trying to diminish that is what I find offensive. Why would we ever want to diminish a woman’s accomplishments or the fame that goes with it.
Atmosphere of exclusivity, that’s not something I see at all when I look at the big name bloggers,or the respect paid to them.
What I see is women who worked hard to get where they are and an atmosphere of celebration of achievements. Even considering diminishing that is offensive to me and any attempt to diminis their accomplishments is tearing down people, and just building different walls.
If you work hard and achieve great things, then darn it, you should be celebrated and recognized.
Would you have us pretend these women haven’t done great things? As I said, how would you even go about diminishing celebrity – without tearing down people, ideals, hard work and putting up walls that prevent women from succeeding?
Denise, can’t they do great things without acquiring an aura of “apartness”? Can’t that “celebrity mystique” actually get in the way of where they’re going in the future?
Everyone should succeed; the only issue is the degree of success and what that fosters in others lower on the ladder.
I aspire to success, but not because I want to be held apart from others. I want the freedom to try something new and maybe fail at it without disappointing people who have unrealistic ideas of who I am.
I doubt that Grace Davis or Nancy White, women who are incredible successes, want to be held apart from others.
I’m not denying their success or the joy that comes with it. I simply want to shift the focus from reverent worship to a place where others who may also be talented in unique ways do not feel a barrier to learning from them, interacting with them, or emulating them.
Do you think these women wish to be known by what they have done, or what they may do in the future? In my opinion, one of the driving forces in a successful person is the desire to push on to the next goal rather than resting on the accolades of the past.
Who held them apart from any others? Give me an example of how Nancy and Grace (your examples) were held apart from everyone else?
Did you feel like either of them were somehow unapproachable? Those are two of the most approachable women I’ve ever met. Did you really feel like their success, and the celebration of their success at Blogher made it difficult to learn anything from them? Did you even try? I seem to remember Snead spent a good bit of time with Nancy White on Saturday night. I saw Grace talking to several people, having indepth discussions with them, about opportunities and ideas.
Lord DnW – how could celebrating their success at Blogher keep them from pushing onto the next goal. Do you not realize that those women are the women who do keep pushing onto the next goal. And, it’s events where we can celebrate their achievements, like Blogher, that help improve their chances of achieving that next goal. Do you really think either Nancy or Grace are planning on sitting back and basking in some Blogher Con glory and never doing anything else? Don’t you see that all of those other big name bloggers have continued to acheive new, great things? And in some cases, Blogher Con has helped them tremendously. The publicity, the celebrity, the fame, the opportunity.
I made a dental dam joke when I opened my bag and saw the condom, and everyone at my table laughed. So obviously we are not all straight and narrow.
The “celeb” thing. I didn’t see one of those women set themselves apart. I actually went and talked (okay and gushed a little) and was welcome in their group for longer than a “nice to meet you.” Were people intimidated to approach them, probably, but I don’t see how it’s the “celeb’s” fault. I went up and talked to Heather Armstrong because I really do admire her writing and have been reading her for 3 years. She was gracious and funny and not at all pretentious. I kind of did it on a dare, but I’m glad I did.
Great post Denise.
Oh crap. I must write my post now before you lump me into the group of people you’re pissed off at. You scare me just a little bit. I’d like to stay on your good side. 🙂
Nah I like you, we can have a good healthy argument about this. I have no doubt about that. I believe we agree about an awful lot of things, and it’s ok to disagree about some.
I met No Fancy Name, I’m sitting here gushing and you can’t even tell, but I am. Heh.
Yea Lisa V – exactly, none of them set themselves apart, at least not from where I was sitting and standing and talking and walking. Hell even Arianna said a nice hello and seemed happy to stop for pictures and a chat.
You made a dental dam joke, darn I missed that. (We thought the corkscrew was a sex toy at first, by the way! I wonder if the corkscrew offended anyone?)
oh, and I was also totally perplexed by the corkscrew…
denise – i enjoyed meeting you and hearing what you had to say at the panel. i also think this is a great post.
ok anonymous person, who are you? Heh – I want to know who enjoyed hearing what I had to say on my panel. And, likes my post. 🙂
Ha! I forgot the corkscrew and have to say I think I find it offensive on the part of all those AA folk, Al-anon folk, and non-drinkers in the group. I should have thought of that to go with those horrid sponsors pushing free wine at us and then drink tickets too.
Denise, my friend, on this point I think it’s probably best to agree that we have different perspectives and leave it at that. I don’t agree with you, but hey…it’s your blog and you’re entitled to think whatever you’d like.
DnW
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I can’t speak for Grace, but I didn’t know I was a celebrity. Oh lordy, have to tell the kids tonight. They will laugh their asses off.
I don’t want to be held apart – for positive or negative reasons. I did feel a bit embarassed by some of the attention I got – and I was surprised by it as well, so it probably reflects on the fact that in this online world we often don’t know what we mean to others – in any sense, without more exploration. And it did feel good to connect with folks I have read and who have followed my work. I consider that one of my communities.
That is what this conversation means to me… how we explore more about who we each are and what we mean to each other. Our perceptions and their proximity to our realities!
This does not (and I think SHOULD NOT) preclude appreciation. But not just for the more visible — it can be reaching out to those we don’t know at gatherings. Noticing the person who might be shying away from joining a conversation. Making an offering to a newcomer (which can also be gracefully declined).
I accidentally discovered an amazing woman (maybe even a hero) in the pool Sunday morning, a woman whose name I don’t even know, a blogger who was training for a triathalon and in the course of her training, discovered a heart problem that was probabaly ignored by her doctor. She wants to write about women’s heart health now to share what she learned. That is so cool.
Is she well known? I don’t know. But her message should be.
We each take a time to lead. We take a time to shine the light on others. We find the balance when we head too much in one direction or the other.
Gawd, I’m sounding preachy. Forgive me. Just had to jump in and could not keep my trap shut. Dang! This is what I’m hearing from this conversation.
Preach away. This is what bugs me about the word “celebrity” and the wish to “diminish celebrity”… a celebrity, to me, is someone who is set apart, unapproachable – there’s not much chance for conversation.
At Blogher, I didn’t consider you or Grace or anyone else to be a “celebrity” in the unapproachable, set apart manner.
Yes, there were women who had others lining up to meet them. But every single person there was approachable. If you were, in fact, a “celebrity” then you wouldn’t have been in a position to meet that woman by the pool.
Even the “real” celebrities , people who’ve attained recognition outside of our little Blogosphere were approachable – they weren’t “apart”.
When I hear DnW say she wants to diminish celebrity – I think first, you have to explain celebrity to me because I didn’t see it. Or you have to explain to me how you might go about doing such a thing, since she seems to have felt like some people were “set apart”.
I loved every second of your fame, Grace’s fame, all of those big mommyblogger’s fame and recognition. In this society women don’t get recognized for the work they do and it is valuable. The things you (Nancy) have taught hundreds of thousands of people are valuable – you should be recognized and appreciated. To call you a “celebrity” makes me nervous, because she’s using “celebrity” in a negative way, and there’s nothing about my interaction with you at Blogher that was negative. You took the time to talk to people, not just to me who wants to marry you, heh.
Sure there are improvements that Blogher could make, but diminishing the “celebrity” as DnW saw it isn’t the direction I can support.
Changing expectations of people is a good place to start. Creating more small group time, is another. Breaking down walls between mommybloggers and edubloggers and gay bloggers and political bloggers is another.
Diminish “celebrity” – sure, if “set-apartness” exists. I don’t think it does.
Hm. I think you hit on something here… the definition of celebrity. Well, it is more than definition. It is also about the relationships we choose to have in life with each other, regardless of things like status. Status is one of those messy, tricky things like money! LOL
Thank you Denise. As a lurker and non-blogger, I love reading great writing. I have begun to wonder about some of the bitterness. We do need to challenge the quality of presence, but rather than beat people up for not having enough, let’s focus on how to do better the next time. What do we need to do differently? As someone who has many friends recovering from varous addictions, I think I was more offended by the drinking culture than the mama culture. And as for sponsorships, not all women can afford to pay full freight — if the sponsorships allowed for meals and reduced convention fees, go for it. Anyway thank for saying that so beautifully. Pinky
PinkPoppies, you’re awesome! I have read everything I can find about the sponsors and the swag and not one person complained about the alcohol sponsors. NOT ONE. I’m annoyed by this and I have a long rant coming, if I ever have time and energy to write it.
Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. It’s good to know that my partner and I are not alone in this. Very good to know.
VERY nicely done, Denise.
I was so glad to meet you, and I’m thoroughly looking forward to next year. In fact, you were one of the people I was happiest to meet.
As far as the stuff in the bags, if you don’t need it or want it, just give it away. I happen to not use condoms – did that offend me? No, I just asked if anyone wanted it, and about a dozen hands shot up.
The free alcohol was actually the reason a good friend of mine did not come – she’s in AA and was unsure if it would have been a good environment. I think she made a good call.
I think she made a good call too. 🙂